Have you heard of Reinhard Bonnke? If you have, what do you think?
I was driving home from church one week in February and just caught the end of an interview with him on the radio. I can’t remember what I heard, but I remember that it was incredible! I went home and googled him:
A youtube search for “reinhard bonnke” will return more amazing videos like this.
He speaks to crowds of hundreds of thousands of people, even millions. Millions of people give their lives to Christ a night. (He claims) Many are healed from sickness. He even claims one resurrection.
What do you think? Leave your thoughts in the comments. My own thoughts in the comments of this post, but this journal article is the best analysis I’ve read so far. Get a load of this quote:
“Jesus wrought salvation by means of his atoning death: the blood of Jesus is mentioned continually… For all speakers, the understanding of this atonement is the substitutionary, sacrificial and penal understanding of classical fundamentalism.” (page 71)
Regardless of what you think of Bonnke, there is something relevant to every Christian reading this.
Relevant fact: millions of people are, or think they are, becoming Christians in Africa, where there were few Christians to begin with, and far fewer Christian leaders.
Implication: If they are becoming Christians (Praise God!!!), they desperately need leaders. If they aren’t, they desperately need true-gospel proclaimers.
The important question: What on earth are we doing in Australia. Seriously.
No really. Think about it.
My thoughts:
Straight away all the cessationalists will write him off, but my theology is more charismatic than it has ever been (thanks to John Piper), and I don’t find the miracles a big problem.
My first thought was ‘he is preaching a different gospel’, just as it is when I hear any story of great numbers of conversions. He might be. But what little I’ve seen has amazed me – he seems to preach the gospel.
The journal article I mentioned analyses a pastors conference-type event he was associated with. It was really informative, even though it was written 20 years ago. As well as the quote in the article above about salvation, read this one:
However,
The article talks about their teaching on the baptism of the holy spirit, but I’m not even sure where I stand on that.
Books by Joel Osteen were at the bookshop. (The worst thing I’ve read about the crusade so far! Osteen is a wolf if ever I saw one) This is particularly worrying because, even if the true gospel is preached the seeds are easily snatched up by prosperity ‘gospel’ teaching, which abounds in his books and, I understand, in many African churches.
CfAN shares with Pentecostalism a low view of theology and stresses experience. And “The “gospel of prosperity” was not particularly prominent at the crusade although it was evident.” Pages 88-89 discuss the miracles.
That’s all I’ve got so far.
Your turn
Oh, one more thing:
It can be easy in Australia, with plateaued or falling church attendances and seemingly few conversions happening, to think God isn’t saving people.
But don’t be discouraged! If Bonnke is leading millions to Christ, it isn’t that God isn’t saving people – it’s just that God is saving different people. (If that isn’t true for Bonnke in Africa it is certainly true in Asia and South America)
I should talk to Drew before I post this, as I might be confusing him with someone else, but that won’t be for a few hours and I’ll have forgotten by then. So if I’m wrong I’ll retract my comment.
The last video I saw of him (I think), featured him cackling and giggling away, speaking in ‘tongues’, shoving people to the ground and being very caught up in the Toronto blessing or whatever it was called. Same guy? Pretty sure he was preaching a different gospel then, so I hope and pray he’s proclaiming the true Lord Jesus these days.
What are we doing in Australia?
Hopefully, PREACHING THE GOSPEL. We speak the Word, but it is God who gives the growth. I think it’s important to remember that God’s Word does not return to Him empty.
Michelle – I think you mean Rodney Howard Browne… That guy’s a nut.
Not sure about Bonke yet – seems to be more orthodox than the other guys
Michelle, I agree that there is an intense need for people in Australia preaching the gospel. You are right, “We speak the Word, but it is God who gives the growth.”
I was privileged to speak to 70 Churn kids (years 4-6) last Friday. That is important ministry which someone has to do! The Word needs to reach them – for salvation and sanctification.
But, given that, it just feels so small! It may be that it is still as important, but serving a small audience of bored, complacent, already ‘over-fed’ children just seems less strategic compared to, for example, spending a year in Africa training leaders who, each, serve thousands of new, hungry, vulnerable adults.
(by over-fed I mean they are already so full of doctrine as to think they don’t need to ‘eat from the Word’ any more, and, even when they do, they make ‘eating’ an end unto itself, rather than a means by which God is glorified and they are sanctified. By vulnerable I mean vulnerable to false-teaching)
Maybe I need my perspective upturned – so feel free to do that. But I just can’t shake this feeling that there are more strategic places than others. (And surely bringers of food are most strategic where the people are most hungry?)
Also, in theory we are “Hopefully, PREACHING THE GOSPEL”. (it will be completely hypocritical of me to say this since I am the exemplar of that which I criticise, but bear with me) In practice, our lives are barren! (Ok, I’ll speak about me – but I would be surprised to be the exception) I consider it a good day when I mention Jesus! As in, good compared to the many more days when I don’t. My conversations are wasted, my relationships are wasted, the hours fly past and I blog! I blog! Or I read, or I eat, or I surf, or I go to lectures, or I go to church, or I watch tv, or I shop, or I ….. The only thing I don’t do is preach the gospel!
If I spent 10 mins a day preaching the gospel (generous!), by time that is less than half a percent!
I know that the solution is not to change continents but to change behaviours – but I wonder if the lifestyle of an Australian student or worker mightn’t stack the odds against them, while a cross-cultural missionary might find it easier.
Please, feel free to blow my little world-view out of the water. [And, of course the situation is different for a teacher at a Christian school (though I have reservations about Christian schools too...)]
Firstly, I’m not a teacher at a Christian school? I’m a wife and a mum. I’m (nearly) trained as a teacher but have no intention of finishing that degree.
Secondly, I don’t have time to go on the major rant I just started writing, so I’ll do that later. Kids need feeding – dinner, not the Word.
BTW, totally unhelpful to presume to know the hearts of all the kids at CHURN/CCEC etc. Kind of get tired of people slagging off the attitude of kids who’ve grown up in Christian families/schools/youth groups etc. From someone who grew up in a non-Christian family: don’t despise the fact you’ve known the gospel for as long as you’ve been able to talk.
Sorry – I shouldn’t assume things. Though Andy does teach at one, doesn’t he?
And, once again, you show me where I’m wrong. Thanks! It is so easy to despise that, and so wrong. Its helpful to be reminded – I should spend more time thinking about what a blessing that has been.
It is unhelpful to presume to know the hearts of kids – and also to make such sweeping generalisations. Buuuuut I can see the actions of many of them and, perhaps, discern their hearts somewhat. I guess its hard: you don’t want to set your expectations too high, but on the other hand you are continually frustrated by apparent complacency.
I think my attitude needs work in this area – if you get time I hope you’ll share your rant.
For anyone with time to read it, this is another good article on Bonnke.
Without reading the other comments above, I think it’s bullshit. How poor are they? They’ll reach out to anything they think will make their lives better.
There’s also the danger that “leaders” will step forward with ridiculous views. There are christian sects in Africa where they’re taught not to allow condoms (promotes sex), HIV treatment (satanic attempt by the US to kill black people) and to stop people getting immunisations (secret US conspiracy to turn all African men infertile).
Then there are the other christian sects, where the pastor tells parents their child is possessed by a demon and they have to pay money for an exorcism. Most parents can’t pay so they abandon the child, kill it, burn it alive (really), set the dogs on them (also really).
It’s all well and good for there to be more Christians in Africa but they need good and decent leaders to stop from being snapped up by fanatics.
Oh and being Christian isn’t going to get them fed.
Oh and Hayes, you sound funny when you go on about praising God and bringing the Word and salvation to people.
You got some hard evidence for that HH?
The only thing remotely like that I’ve ever heard is Islamic clerics teaching that polio immunisation is a Western trick to sterilise Africans.
haha I have no problem sounding funny.
I’ll pay attention to your comment when you back it up with any evidence. My parents spent 2 years in Zambia educating the Africans about AIDS against the common belief (still prevalent) that is best expressed like this: American Invention to Discourage Sex. Christians aren’t the problem (largely, witchdoctorrs are) but they, unlike you, are doing something about it.
You could also show me the multitudes of initiatives against AIDS and all the safe-sex education programmes and thousands of hospitals and countless immunisation programmes that have been started by secular organisations.
And I’ll show you a continent whose primary health care system is being held up by missionaries and their supporters against the weight of corrupt governments and the exploitative first world.
Your demon example fit better with my knowledge of traditional witch-doctor ‘treatment’ than anything else, and this the Christian gospel also overturns. I do, however, accept that there is a tendency for such societies (actually, all societies) to blend their traditional spirituality with Christianity – if this is the case, then this is the real problem, not Christianity.
(Brace yourself) I agree, Healy, with all of this:
It’s all well and good for there to be more Christians in Africa but they need good and decent leaders to stop from being snapped up by fanatics.
Oh and being Christian isn’t going to get them fed.
Michelle, I’d like to know more – can you find anything on the net about that? What do you think about Toronto – I’ve read a book by Guy Chevreau, and I was pleasantly, though reservedly, surprised.
Ok, things got confusing for me:
I think I was wrong actually about it being Bonnke being with Toronto – Joel is right, I’m thinking of RHB – that’s what happens when your husband is only half-listening to the questions you’re asking him. My apologies, can you edit these posts, I need to delete the PS.
The bit about immunisation I saw on SBS maybe a year ago, think it was in Ethiopia.
Toronto? I just can’t see how people laughing hysterically and barking like dogs glorifies Jesus. I don’t know lots about it – happened before I was converted but I know it damaged a lot of people. Drew read a book called “The Signs and Wonders Movement Exposed” by Peter Glover (?). Think he found it helpful. It’s out of print, but I suspect there are few copies floating around, I’ll have a look and see if we have it here.
Interesting quote on AIDS- well it’d be a quote if I could find the book to copy it word for word, but anyway, in the No. 1 Ladies’ Detective Agency series, Alexander McCall-Smith has one of his characters observe, quite profoundly, that unfaithfulness has caused a lot of hurt, and one of the worst consequences being the spread of the ‘cruel illness’.
I haven’t heard anything about barking. I have no problem with laughter – haven’t you been so instantly filled with joy as to burst into laughter for a moment, then grin like a fool for minutes after it has passed? Happened to me last week. And often when singing at night church – so joyful that I can’t sing, physically no sound comes out, I can only mouth the words.
What do you make of Jonathon Edwards’ experiences? A couple of Piper’s messages (either John’s or Noel’s) refer to them. I tried to find the one I’m thinking of, I think it’s this one. Oh, and the start of this message.
Would you like me to loan you this Guy Chevreau book? I found it really helpful in understanding the Toronto Blessing – written by one of the big wigs just a year later. His exposition was pretty terrible, but the descriptions are useful and his quotes from Jonathon Edwards are gold! Man, if they had followed Edwards’ writings, the pentecostal church would be the truest church today.
Want to trade books?
Um, no actually, I’ve never experienced that. Does that make me less of a Christian? I hope not (nor do I think you would say so). I think I’ve mentioned this before (not here), but singing isn’t really how I express, well, anything. I’d rather write an essay. I’m serious. Music is just not how I express myself. Words are. I even find writing prayers really helpful. I really find that difficult given that music is so important in churching. Something I continue to wrestle with.
But, there’s a big difference between spontaneous grinning, and rolling on the floor laughing for prolonged periods of time … seems more like a symptom of hysteria to me, and as I said before, I struggle see how that glorifies Jesus. Also don’t really understand the appropriateness in a church context, can’t really see how it edifies the congregation.
Edwards is (was) legend. So are both the Pipers. I really enjoy reading Piper, The Pleasures of God is brilliant, life and perspective changing. Edwards’ wife was given to some interesting experiences, and I have no doubt they were genuine, God-given experiences. I don’t think it’s helpful to go seeking after the same experience, but I have no problem with people who do have those kind of experiences.
Yeah, I’ll see if I can dig up the Glover book.
Got your note on my blog, I’ll post something a bit later, although it may not be terribly interesting
Of course I wouldn’t suggest that not feeling my personal subjective experience made anyone less of a Christian! Very few people tear their clothes in worship today – music is only one act of worship. I actually think it can be a bit manipulative. The process needs to be emotion –> music, not music –> emotion.
And if the gifts of the Spirit are varied, why ought its affectations be constant?
[new train of thought] Last week I was having a pretty flat-affect day. Couldn’t quite put my finger on what was up, just felt drained. Wasn’t feeling particularly strong in faith either. Walking back from a lecture, thinking or praying or listening to a sermon (I can’t remember what), I suddenly burst into laughter! Joy rushed out from deep inside me like a bubble bursting – and a very simple, clear thought filled my mind:
“What will keep me a Christian for 70 years? God! What else?!”
(It’s hard to give the full sense of the meaning of that thought. For context, that is a question I’ve heard asked a few times. But the absurd simplicity and goodness of this answer was hilarious: how could I have thought anything else! Only immersing myself in the delights of God’s goodness, that is what will sustain me.)
I was left wondering, “where did that come from?!” And how could such a simple (though amazing!) insight like that produce such an effect?
It strikes me as very easy to imagine a person who, when given the slightest taste of God’s goodness (for oh what a sliver I must have seen!) , cannot control the sheer delight of it. Have you read what Pascal wrote on that slip of paper he sewed into his jacket?
[new train of thought] On the one hand, we don’t want to fall into Corinthian-esque immaturity. On the other, I agree with Dr. Martin Lloyd-Jones: (read the ‘you’ as ‘one’)
“You can be so afraid of disorder, so concerned about discipline and decorum and control, that you become guilty of what the Scripture calls “quenching the Spirit”"
I agree, to an extent, when you say <i>”I don’t think it’s helpful to go seeking after the same experience”</i>. We need to seek God’s glory first, and then the edification of the body and spreading of a passion for Him amongst the lost, all far more important than desiring private pleasures! “If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.” I find much wrong with chasing after loose spirits; wanting an experience for its own sake (or, worse, for ulterior motives); and especially anything that takes even the slightest focus off God.
But who can read Pascal and Edwards without wanting their joy unspeakable; their taste of God? (perhaps you can. Maybe this is just me) How I long to see more of God’s glory and, by consequence, my own sinfulness! Who but the Spirit brings that? And what a difference such a movement would make if widespread! We are told to “pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts” (1 Cor 14:1). I don’t want to categorically rule-out seeking the Spirit for these reasons.
Does it glorify Jesus? If they are, as I have been suggesting, enthralled by His glory, then little could be more glorifying, it seems to me. (Obviously, it would be made more glorifying if it later effected marked Christ-like behaviour, but Edwards argues this is always a symptom of the true Spirit). At any rate it seems to me more glorifying than an orderly but passionless liturgy. It’s like Piper says in Don’t Waste Your Life: seeing but not savouring Christ does not glorify Him.
ps doesn’t the english language needs an exclamation question mark?!
Not quite what I meant. I meant chasing ecstatic experiences as an end in themselves.
Of course we ought to be chasing their joy and ‘taste of God’! Of course we ought to long for their great and deep understanding of the glory of God! Of course we ought to long to see and understand more of the glory of God!
Right now I need an uber-exclamation mark!!!
I agree (with dale.com)
[new train of thought] Last week I was having a pretty flat-affect day. Couldn’t quite put my finger on what was up, just felt drained. Wasn’t feeling particularly strong in faith either. Walking back from a lecture, thinking or praying or listening to a sermon (I can’t remember what), I suddenly burst into laughter! Joy rushed out from deep inside me like a bubble bursting – and a very simple, clear thought filled my mind:
“What will keep me a Christian for 70 years? God! What else?!”
You, sir, are quite obviously insane.
You’re just jealous
I thank God for Pastor Ev Reinhard Bonnke in our age. Africa has seen the light of Jesus for such a surprice as man of God as Bonnke is one of them i can mention many Pastors, Evangelists, Apostles, Teachers of the Word and Prophets. they are many i cant finnish counting for e.g Chris Oyakhilome, Rodney Howard Brown,Benny Hinn etc the Lord is enabling them to change the Globe for Christ anyway. How are we gonna be able to except the Globe to be saved without a preacher but by God’s grace the Globe get’s goodnews. Thank Jesus, Halelujah
deus me chamou para também proclamar o evangelho eu louvo a deus pela vida desse homem de deus e o meu desejo é levar a palavra do senhor pelas naçoes como reinhard bonnke exelentes videos que apaz do senhor jesus esteja com vosco
That’s Portuguese. Here’s the best translation Google can manage:
“God called me to preach the gospel also I praise God for the life of this man of God and my desire is to take the word of the Lord by nations such as Reinhard Bonnke exelentes videos apaz that the Lord Jesus be with vosc”
Thanks
I was wondering about that… haha