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	<title>Comments on: Evidences of God&#8217;s grace #2</title>
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	<description>&#34;For me, to live is Christ and to die is gain&#34;</description>
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		<title>By: hayesy</title>
		<link>http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/evidences-of-gods-grace-2-2/comment-page-1/#comment-8552</link>
		<dc:creator>hayesy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 02:35:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/?p=600#comment-8552</guid>
		<description>Yeah I think you&#039;re spot on.
Self-righteousness, moral superiority, pride... and I definitely felt that dissonance.

Additionally, there&#039;s a philosophical yuckiness about having your salvation contingent on your selfishness (hence sinfulness). 
Of course, it never &lt;i&gt;was&lt;/i&gt; contingent on it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah I think you&#8217;re spot on.<br />
Self-righteousness, moral superiority, pride&#8230; and I definitely felt that dissonance.</p>
<p>Additionally, there&#8217;s a philosophical yuckiness about having your salvation contingent on your selfishness (hence sinfulness).<br />
Of course, it never <i>was</i> contingent on it.</p>
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		<title>By: SmartLX</title>
		<link>http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/evidences-of-gods-grace-2-2/comment-page-1/#comment-8547</link>
		<dc:creator>SmartLX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 00:14:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/?p=600#comment-8547</guid>
		<description>Thanks for that Hayesy.  Goes to show you can make a sermon out of anything.

The question often causes tremendous cognitive dissonance when believers try to argue that it&#039;s not selfish.  Perhaps pride and a sense of moral superiority over non-believers (who are usually the ones asking the question) make this seem like a critical point to defend.  Conceding it looks to be the way to reconcile it.  Humility is apparently the answer.  Fascinating.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for that Hayesy.  Goes to show you can make a sermon out of anything.</p>
<p>The question often causes tremendous cognitive dissonance when believers try to argue that it&#8217;s not selfish.  Perhaps pride and a sense of moral superiority over non-believers (who are usually the ones asking the question) make this seem like a critical point to defend.  Conceding it looks to be the way to reconcile it.  Humility is apparently the answer.  Fascinating.</p>
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		<title>By: hayesy</title>
		<link>http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/evidences-of-gods-grace-2-2/comment-page-1/#comment-8522</link>
		<dc:creator>hayesy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 10:17:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/?p=600#comment-8522</guid>
		<description>Yeah, great question!
Sam - the dsciples were there... SmartLX is talking about his last days on earth before the crucifixion. (Mind you, his actual last days on earth were a month after that.)

Honestly, I don&#039;t know.

It&#039;s worth noting that he went willingly, out of love for us and love for His Father, whose will he was obeying.

To be really honest, I don&#039;t think I would have stopped him (making the rather large assumption that I knew fully what was going on, that his death was to purchase the forgiveness for my sin).

Does that make me selfish? Probably.
I AM selfish - that&#039;s why I need a Saviour. And I don&#039;t love Jesus like I should or like he deserves. 

That&#039;s what makes the gospel beautiful. &lt;i&gt;While&lt;/i&gt; we were still sinners, Christ died for us. God, being rich in mercy because of the great love with which he loved us, &lt;b&gt;even when&lt;/b&gt; we were still dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ.

Ultimately, I don&#039;t think this is a choice God ever intended us to have. I would not have been able to stop him. He was on a mission that God had planned from the beginning of time. Jesus rebuked Peter as satanic when he tried to stop him (albeit for different reasons). &quot;The Son of Man came not to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many&quot;. It was the whole reason why he took on flesh. 

God never intended us to be able to stop him - he doesn&#039;t ask us to wrestle with this dilemma, he has already done it all and now simply holds out the offer: &lt;i&gt;&quot;come home, brother, all will be forgiven. Follow me, know me, love me; because you are loved by me&quot;&lt;/i&gt;.

I know this misses the point of the question, but I still thank God for it. 
He knows that we &lt;i&gt;are&lt;/i&gt; selfish, and so he sent his Son to save us. 
He knows that we have nothing to offer him, and that the only way we can come to him is humbly receiving.
He knows that we can&#039;t love him perfectly, so he didn&#039;t wait for us to do that. 

He reached out, because we never would have. Praise God for it, and come to Him while He will still let you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, great question!<br />
Sam &#8211; the dsciples were there&#8230; SmartLX is talking about his last days on earth before the crucifixion. (Mind you, his actual last days on earth were a month after that.)</p>
<p>Honestly, I don&#8217;t know.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s worth noting that he went willingly, out of love for us and love for His Father, whose will he was obeying.</p>
<p>To be really honest, I don&#8217;t think I would have stopped him (making the rather large assumption that I knew fully what was going on, that his death was to purchase the forgiveness for my sin).</p>
<p>Does that make me selfish? Probably.<br />
I AM selfish &#8211; that&#8217;s why I need a Saviour. And I don&#8217;t love Jesus like I should or like he deserves. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s what makes the gospel beautiful. <i>While</i> we were still sinners, Christ died for us. God, being rich in mercy because of the great love with which he loved us, <b>even when</b> we were still dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ.</p>
<p>Ultimately, I don&#8217;t think this is a choice God ever intended us to have. I would not have been able to stop him. He was on a mission that God had planned from the beginning of time. Jesus rebuked Peter as satanic when he tried to stop him (albeit for different reasons). &#8220;The Son of Man came not to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many&#8221;. It was the whole reason why he took on flesh. </p>
<p>God never intended us to be able to stop him &#8211; he doesn&#8217;t ask us to wrestle with this dilemma, he has already done it all and now simply holds out the offer: <i>&#8220;come home, brother, all will be forgiven. Follow me, know me, love me; because you are loved by me&#8221;</i>.</p>
<p>I know this misses the point of the question, but I still thank God for it.<br />
He knows that we <i>are</i> selfish, and so he sent his Son to save us.<br />
He knows that we have nothing to offer him, and that the only way we can come to him is humbly receiving.<br />
He knows that we can&#8217;t love him perfectly, so he didn&#8217;t wait for us to do that. </p>
<p>He reached out, because we never would have. Praise God for it, and come to Him while He will still let you.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Hadley</title>
		<link>http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/evidences-of-gods-grace-2-2/comment-page-1/#comment-8452</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Hadley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 09:11:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/?p=600#comment-8452</guid>
		<description>i would think that the glory, power, majesty, brilliance of Christ would prevent us so sinful from being there, but it would have been awesome !!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i would think that the glory, power, majesty, brilliance of Christ would prevent us so sinful from being there, but it would have been awesome !!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: eye doc</title>
		<link>http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/evidences-of-gods-grace-2-2/comment-page-1/#comment-8335</link>
		<dc:creator>eye doc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 11:22:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/?p=600#comment-8335</guid>
		<description>Great question from SmartLX. Raises all sorts of issues. Some of which Jesus wrestles with himself in the garden. Remember Jesus called Peter Satan for trying to disuade him from his sacrifical destiny at one stage. Personally, I am less likely to be the one trying to save Jesus than the one swinging the hammer since it was such as I that put him there in thd first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great question from SmartLX. Raises all sorts of issues. Some of which Jesus wrestles with himself in the garden. Remember Jesus called Peter Satan for trying to disuade him from his sacrifical destiny at one stage. Personally, I am less likely to be the one trying to save Jesus than the one swinging the hammer since it was such as I that put him there in thd first place.</p>
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		<title>By: SmartLX</title>
		<link>http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/evidences-of-gods-grace-2-2/comment-page-1/#comment-8085</link>
		<dc:creator>SmartLX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 22:59:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/?p=600#comment-8085</guid>
		<description>Hi Hayesy.  This reminds me, I came across a question I&#039;m not sure how I&#039;d answer if I were a Christian.  I&#039;d like to know what you think.

If you were there with Jesus in his LAST days or weeks, knowing what would happen to him, and you had the power to influence his actions (he was apparently a person, after all) would you have saved him from being tortured and murdered by the Romans?  If so, what of his great sacrifice?  If not, would it have been selfish of you to let him suffer so that you could get your salvation?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Hayesy.  This reminds me, I came across a question I&#8217;m not sure how I&#8217;d answer if I were a Christian.  I&#8217;d like to know what you think.</p>
<p>If you were there with Jesus in his LAST days or weeks, knowing what would happen to him, and you had the power to influence his actions (he was apparently a person, after all) would you have saved him from being tortured and murdered by the Romans?  If so, what of his great sacrifice?  If not, would it have been selfish of you to let him suffer so that you could get your salvation?</p>
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