Comments on: On Mission @ WYD? http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/on-mission-wyd/ "For me, to live is Christ and to die is gain" Sun, 05 Sep 2010 19:24:27 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: jpj http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/on-mission-wyd/comment-page-1/#comment-2327 jpj Fri, 20 Jun 2008 04:40:49 +0000 http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/?p=244#comment-2327 Haysey - very helpful distinction. Thanks Haysey – very helpful distinction. Thanks

]]> By: hayesy http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/on-mission-wyd/comment-page-1/#comment-2324 hayesy Fri, 20 Jun 2008 04:15:04 +0000 http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/?p=244#comment-2324 <p>Could have been: a) they were being taught well, and contrary to the actual teaching of the Church or b) the Catholic understanding of grace:<em>"a supernatural help of God for salutary acts granted in consideration of the merits of Christ"</em> - From <a href="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06689x.htm" rel="nofollow">here</a>. That is, they say grace is something God gives you to help you earn your salvation.</p> <p>That's why it can be really hard to talk to Catholics - they say 'we are saved by grace' but mean 'we are saved by works', where as we say 'we are saved by grace, of which our works are but an evidence'.</p> <p>Mind you, if you read my last comment carefully, you will find that I don't generalise Catholics at all. I talk only about the official Church teaching.</p> <p>I always want to carefully distinguish between what <strong>Catholics</strong> believe and what the <strong>Catholic Church teaches</strong>. The diversity in belief between Catholics is so immense that its almost not worth talking about it. However, its very easy to find what the Church officially teaches. And the official teachings, and the beliefs of my grandparents and my Dad's side of the family, are extraordinarily works-based.</p> Could have been:
a) they were being taught well, and contrary to the actual teaching of the Church
or
b) the Catholic understanding of grace:“a supernatural help of God for salutary acts granted in consideration of the merits of Christ” – From here. That is, they say grace is something God gives you to help you earn your salvation.

That’s why it can be really hard to talk to Catholics – they say ‘we are saved by grace’ but mean ‘we are saved by works’, where as we say ‘we are saved by grace, of which our works are but an evidence’.

Mind you, if you read my last comment carefully, you will find that I don’t generalise Catholics at all. I talk only about the official Church teaching.

I always want to carefully distinguish between what Catholics believe and what the Catholic Church teaches. The diversity in belief between Catholics is so immense that its almost not worth talking about it. However, its very easy to find what the Church officially teaches. And the official teachings, and the beliefs of my grandparents and my Dad’s side of the family, are extraordinarily works-based.

]]> By: VK http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/on-mission-wyd/comment-page-1/#comment-2319 VK Fri, 20 Jun 2008 01:00:42 +0000 http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/?p=244#comment-2319 mmm, just be careful how you general the Catholics, we were discussing it at bible study last night and Lucy and Carole who went to catholic schools were heavily taught that they were saved by grace. Some do belive that they are saved by grace but others think works come into it as well. mmm, just be careful how you general the Catholics, we were discussing it at bible study last night and Lucy and Carole who went to catholic schools were heavily taught that they were saved by grace.
Some do belive that they are saved by grace but others think works come into it as well.

]]> By: hayesy http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/on-mission-wyd/comment-page-1/#comment-2307 hayesy Thu, 19 Jun 2008 23:10:33 +0000 http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/?p=244#comment-2307 <p>I feel tied to the Bible, and influenced by some very bright Bible teachers, and that's about it. As for the Bible teachers - they come from every which denomination.</p> <p>In the USA, all the major denominations are in decline. And in their place are growing many independent evangelical churches, who don't see denominational differences as problems and are connected by networks, rather than dioceses. (Take that stat with a grain of salt. Its at least true in general)</p> <p>Some have postulated the end of denominationalism.</p> <p>Regarding my view on Catholics: there are Christians in Catholic Churches just as there are nonChristians in Protestant churches. The difference is that to be Christian in a Catholic Church one needs to ignore the Church's (official) teachings. Salvation is by grace alone, through faith, and not by works.</p> I feel tied to the Bible, and influenced by some very bright Bible teachers, and that’s about it. As for the Bible teachers – they come from every which denomination.

In the USA, all the major denominations are in decline. And in their place are growing many independent evangelical churches, who don’t see denominational differences as problems and are connected by networks, rather than dioceses. (Take that stat with a grain of salt. Its at least true in general)

Some have postulated the end of denominationalism.

Regarding my view on Catholics: there are Christians in Catholic Churches just as there are nonChristians in Protestant churches. The difference is that to be Christian in a Catholic Church one needs to ignore the Church’s (official) teachings. Salvation is by grace alone, through faith, and not by works.

]]> By: Michelle http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/on-mission-wyd/comment-page-1/#comment-2302 Michelle Thu, 19 Jun 2008 22:06:10 +0000 http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/?p=244#comment-2302 Can't answer for Haysey as to whether he feels tied to a denomination, but we all (Haysey, me, vk, jpj) go to a <a href="http://www.ccec.com.au" rel="nofollow">non-denominational evangelical church</a>.  Can’t answer for Haysey as to whether he feels tied to a denomination, but we all (Haysey, me, vk, jpj) go to a non-denominational evangelical church. 

]]> By: SmartLX http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/on-mission-wyd/comment-page-1/#comment-2299 SmartLX Thu, 19 Jun 2008 18:57:12 +0000 http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/?p=244#comment-2299 I'd go for it, man.  Regardless of how successful you are, you'll draw out their apologists and learn a lot.   Again, I guess it's weird that the atheist is pushing you to preach.  But I'd like all religions to interact as much as possible, and it doesn't matter to me if some Catholics become your kind of Christian...hey, what is your denomination anyway? I’d go for it, man.  Regardless of how successful you are, you’ll draw out their apologists and learn a lot.
 
Again, I guess it’s weird that the atheist is pushing you to preach.  But I’d like all religions to interact as much as possible, and it doesn’t matter to me if some Catholics become your kind of Christian…hey, what is your denomination anyway?

]]> By: vk http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/on-mission-wyd/comment-page-1/#comment-2209 vk Mon, 16 Jun 2008 11:40:47 +0000 http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/?p=244#comment-2209 <p>yea i'm keen. when is it? and where.?</p> <p> </p> yea i’m keen. when is it? and where.?

 

]]> By: hayesy http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/on-mission-wyd/comment-page-1/#comment-2208 hayesy Mon, 16 Jun 2008 11:05:22 +0000 http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/?p=244#comment-2208 Thanks for your encouragement Erica! I really appreciate it Thanks for your encouragement Erica! I really appreciate it

]]> By: Erica http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/on-mission-wyd/comment-page-1/#comment-2207 Erica Mon, 16 Jun 2008 10:44:49 +0000 http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/?p=244#comment-2207 I don't live in Sydney, nor am I free, but it would be an amazing opportunity (and a lot of preparation and prayer). Just wanted to encourage you, so: good on you :) I don’t live in Sydney, nor am I free, but it would be an amazing opportunity (and a lot of preparation and prayer). Just wanted to encourage you, so: good on you :)

]]> By: hayesy http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/on-mission-wyd/comment-page-1/#comment-2202 hayesy Mon, 16 Jun 2008 03:06:09 +0000 http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/?p=244#comment-2202 <p>Agreed, Michelle. I think you'd definitely be most effective one-on-one or in small groups.</p> <p>I've heard that the 'pilgrims' from overseas will be very different to most Australian Catholics - they will, for example, actually have verses to support their views.</p> <p>Might be hard.</p> <p>Joel, sweetness! I'm keen too! Anyone else?</p> Agreed, Michelle. I think you’d definitely be most effective one-on-one or in small groups.

I’ve heard that the ‘pilgrims’ from overseas will be very different to most Australian Catholics – they will, for example, actually have verses to support their views.

Might be hard.

Joel, sweetness! I’m keen too! Anyone else?

]]> By: jpj http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/on-mission-wyd/comment-page-1/#comment-2200 jpj Mon, 16 Jun 2008 01:33:02 +0000 http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/?p=244#comment-2200 Yeah definitely not shouting! I was more thinking - go once and check out the vibe. Then see how one on one conversations can take place Yeah definitely not shouting!
I was more thinking – go once and check out the vibe. Then see how one on one conversations can take place

]]> By: Michelle http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/on-mission-wyd/comment-page-1/#comment-2199 Michelle Mon, 16 Jun 2008 01:27:07 +0000 http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/?p=244#comment-2199 I think you need to be strategic though. Rocking up in the middle of a crowd and shouting might not be the best idea. Maybe hang out at a  kind of place where you can talk to smaller groups of people.  I think you need to be strategic though. Rocking up in the middle of a crowd and shouting might not be the best idea. Maybe hang out at a  kind of place where you can talk to smaller groups of people. 

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