Comments on: Reformed Charismatics? Part III: Incompatibilities

By: hayesy

hayesy — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:58:40 +0000

Yes, that’s right, those ‘filled with the Spirit’ instances are thought to be synonymous with ‘baptised in the Spirit’.

But how do you know that the term Baptism properly refers to the one (regeneration) and not the other (fillings)?
Would you say the disciples were regerate the day before pentecost? How is that possible, since charismatics and cessationists agree you cannot be regenerate without the Holy Spirit?

Certainly the narratives and epistles should not contradict each other. So where exactly is the contradiction between this and Ephesians 1?
Notice it says ‘having believed’, that is a very good translation of the aorist (past tense) participle. Having believed, you were sealed, or, equivalently, after having believed, you were sealed. This sealing also refers to a post-conversion filling/baptism.
I would prove it by asking, in what sense is your experience of the Spirit sealing you a guarentee?
In what sense might a baptism/filling experience act as a guarentee?

Here is John Wesley:
“in whom after ye had believed – Probably some time after their first believing. Ye were sealed by that Holy Spirit of promise – Holy both in his nature and in his operations, and promised to all the children of God. The sealing seems to imply, A full impression of the image of God on their souls. A full assurance of receiving all the promises, whether relating to time or eternity.”

By: Lynne hayes

Lynne hayes — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:39:39 +0000

Hi! I have only had time to read part of your blogs but would like to respond so far:
Re. Baptism of the Spirit and the disciples:
Jn 15: 3 does not speak of regeneration, only of being clean.
Jn 20: 21-22: may not be the time that the disciples received the Spirit, but may be anticipating it. As Jesus said,, they were to stay in Jerusalem until they received the gift his Father promised Acts 1: 4-5 when they would be baptised with the Spirit.
Prior to Pentecost the Holy Spirit was given to God’s people for specific tasks, eg the prophets, Zecharia and Elizabeth before Christ’s birth; but He had not been given to indwell all believers generally.
Also it is important to interpret the narratives in the light of the theological teachings and doctrines contained in the epistles. They should not contradict each other, and should shed light on each other. Therefore Eph. 1: 13-14 becomes very important: “13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possessionâ€”to the praise of his glory.”

In summary (and I must read more later-too late now) Jesus baptised with the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. I think the scripture refers to more instances of being filled with the Spirit, which may be what is given the term of the experience of “baptism of the Spirit” by charismatics as a later blessing following conversion.

By: Reformed Charismatics? Part II: Definitions and Emphasis » The Crazy Australian

Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:46:34 +0000

[...] Part III: Incompatibilities [...]