“There is but one truly serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide. Judging whether life is or is not worth living amounts to answering the fundamental question of philosophy.” — Albert Camus
I’m going to be deliberately provocative: Why shouldn’t we commit suicide? Why ought you, or I, keep on living?
I’d love to hear your thoughts from within your wordview (especially atheistic wordviews). Leave a comment. I might post the most interesting/appealing in a future blog post.
i think that suicide is the natural progression from post-modernism through nihilism. if there is no truth and there is no meaning – it doesn’t matter what you do.
but…
there is truth and there is meaning.
so the people who claim there is no truth, there is no meaning, there are no absolutes… they are hypocrites!! they are inconsistent and prove that they do actually have a right/wrong/absolute conscience written on their hearts
What i find interesting is that musicians regularly express their thoughts on life’s meaning, …maybe its because they’re the reflective type.
People then say “man, i can’t believe they think life is pointless”
and I normally respond with “at least they are being consistent”
Sometimes i wish people would be consistent with their beliefs. But then I think that if the secular world took up the challenge the “common virtue” Jonathan Edwards describes would collapse as people choose not to live life as half decent people, the end result being a world of anarchy.
On the other hand, if only Christians would be consistent with their beliefs…
Thanks for the comments!
Dave, really interesting stuff! I would love to hear a nihilist answer me “why are you still hanging around?”!
For sure, existential texts are hopelessly pessimistic – several times in Waiting For Godot they propose suicide, but can’t seem to be bothered. That seems to be their main reason not to. Why do you think we haven’t seen mass-suicides due to post-modernism? (Or have we?)
Is it because no-one really, deep-down, believes what they say they do? Does it not necessarily follow to suicide? Do they find some other ‘raison d’etre’? Do they simply ‘suppress the truth’? Or some other reason?
Keep it coming!
Joel, gold!
We definitely seem to be wired to look for meaning. (Why, I wonder…)
I blogged something I heard about this recently: (un)Meaningless Sentances
Still haven’t heard any reasons not to jump…. if I’m ever suicidal, I’m not coming to you guys!
Why shouldn’t we?
yeah i reckon deep down they know there is meaning.
that’s how they are wired.
Doesn’t have much relevance but I’m sure Jesus said in the Bible “he who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates this life will blahblahblah something about heaven”.
It’s a stupid example I know but it’s interesting.
I don’t particularly agree with suicide. It’s generally the result of deep-seated emotional issues (depression and whatnot) I think all efforts should be made to get people with suicidal tendencies to a qualified therapist or mental health centre.
There’s a big difference though when it comes to euthanasia.
My belief is this – if an elderly person is suffering constant pain, terminal illnesses or whatever, you should let them go if they so desire it. They’ve led a long and full life, they most likely don’t want to die hooked up to life support or drooling and covered in their own messes. There’s the dignity factor.
Then there are people on life support. People whose brain has long since lost the things that make them human instead of twitchy meat sacks. If a person is so severely brain damaged that there’s no chance of recovery, if a person has a mental condition giving them the brain capacity and sensory faculties well below that of a child… Let them go. You’re just prolonging their suffering, the suffering of the families, the suffering of (sounds bad) the medical system by struggling to keep their body going long after their mind has left it.
Another way you could consider it as theists – these people who will never ever recover from their brain-related injuries or those who are kept are kept alive on lifesupport at aged care centres for the sole purpose of keeping the body going… you’re in a way keeping them from your God. You realise the brain is gone, you see the mind has left, for all intents and purposes they’re simply meat that might occasionally twitch at the random firing of neurons… But they wouldn’t survive long after you turn that device on. Some people on life support can look forward to being insensate for YEARS, years of non-existence as a complete vegetable. It’s no way to live and all efforts should be made to let them go with dignity.
Oh suicide? Yeah try to get them help and treatment. Don’t let them jump in front of trains or whatnot. If they want to do it in an assisted way set up legislation, have multiple oversights to prevent corruption, go for your life.
As an aside, if I am in an accident and rendered a vegetable with no hope of recovery whatsoever, pull the plug.
Euthenasia aside, justify this:
“I think all efforts should be made to get people with suicidal tendencies to a qualified therapist or mental health centre.”
Why? What do you see in life that is worth keeping for these (obviously depressed) people?
Do Christians have a problem with turning off life support machines? I don’t think I do. I recently read John Anderson’s (former deputy PM) biography and they actually made the decision to stop putting their severly handicapped baby through operation after operation, as they recognised the inevitability of his condition taking his life and the constant pain he was suffering as the result of them. So they stopped the myriad of operations, and enjoyed a few precious weeks with their dying child. I think it was a courageous decision.
Euthanasia is a different matter I think, it’s generally different to allowing a dying person to die, for example, by stopping any treatment. It requires intervention – that is, the person won’t die if treatment is stopped, rather, they need to be killed.
But why stop the suicidal from killing themselves? Phillip Nietzche, the outspoken euthanasia supporter apparently has no problem with it, and thinks we ought to help depressed people to do it. Why make the depressed live a life of misery? According to euthansia supporters it isn’t fair to make a person continue to live in physical pain, why is emotional pain any different? It’s just as real. You need to be consistent.
I’ve often said that the only two people whose world views could be right are the Lord Jesus and Fredrich Neitzche (not the same guy as the one I mentioned before). If I wasn’t a Christian, I’d have to be a nihilist.
Are you saying Hayes, Mr Pro-Life, that suicidal people should be left to themselves to commit suicide?
What in life for them is worth keeping? They’re DEPRESSED you wanker, they have a oft-times disastrous chemical imbalance. Depression is a real and terrible thing – it’s not something a person simply can stop doing, they have no control. So stick it.
If they’re depressed, help them. At least check them out. After you try, sure they can go off and end it all. But you should at least try.
Physical pain, Michelle, is different from emotional pain. They are both real, surely, just as surely as they are DIFFERENT.
Also, just read your last comment… “If I wasn’t a Christian, I’d have to be a nihilist”
WHAT? Explain please. Either you’re not understanding what nihilism truly is or you seriously think that the only two options to life are being a Christian or floating adrift in an empty void of pointlessness… Which is bullshit.
Am I saying that suicidal people should be left to themselves to commit suicide?
No, most emphatically not. I was playing the devil’s advocate, drawing out your position – not sharing my own.
“floating adrift in an empty void of pointlessness”
At least nihilists honestly follow the logical trail from their presuppositions.
“At least nihilists honestly follow the logical trail from their presuppositions.”
Are you telling me Hayes it’s illogical for me not to be a Nihilist when I’m not a Christian? Not sure what you’re getting at with that comment.