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	<title>Comments on: Thanks Craig!</title>
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	<description>&#34;For me, to live is Christ and to die is gain&#34;</description>
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		<title>By: SmartLX</title>
		<link>http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/thanks-craig/comment-page-1/#comment-2379</link>
		<dc:creator>SmartLX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jun 2008 17:05:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/?p=277#comment-2379</guid>
		<description>No you don&#039;t have the time, I suppose.  Think of it as something to ponder when you need a break from studying.

The point isn&#039;t that parthenos means virgin.  (There are exceptions to even that: once in the translation of Genesis it&#039;s used to describe a rape victim.)  The point is that parthenos, which normally explicitly meant virgin (and still does, as in parthenogenesis), was substituted for a Hebrew word which does not.  

At the very least, the word betulah is much closer to &quot;virgin&quot; than almah, but it wasn&#039;t used in Isaiah&#039;s prophecy.  The Jewish scholars knew the difference between betulah and almah, and yet they wrote &quot;virgin&quot; in Greek instead of &quot;young woman&quot;.  

This was a really important part to get right; why would they take such a liberty with directions to identify God&#039;s son?  To increase the significance of the prophecy by using the already-ancient plot device of a virgin birth (see &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perseus&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Perseus&lt;/a&gt;, importantly a Greek figure)?  Because of their own ideas of how God &lt;em&gt;ought&lt;/em&gt; to reproduce?  And why don&#039;t Jewish scholars agree with the translation today?

I realise that your immediate reaction to that last one will be that if the Jews accepted the translation they&#039;d have to accept Jesus, and they&#039;re not ready to do that.  Maybe so, but put it this way: what reasons do they give for rejecting it, and are those reasons valid or not?

I always say that if you want to know the problems with the prophecies as they pertain to Jesus, you should talk to a rabbi.  Jews believe the Old Testament prophecies as much as you do, but just don&#039;t think they apply to Jesus.  They&#039;re still waiting for their Messiah.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No you don&#8217;t have the time, I suppose.  Think of it as something to ponder when you need a break from studying.</p>
<p>The point isn&#8217;t that parthenos means virgin.  (There are exceptions to even that: once in the translation of Genesis it&#8217;s used to describe a rape victim.)  The point is that parthenos, which normally explicitly meant virgin (and still does, as in parthenogenesis), was substituted for a Hebrew word which does not.  </p>
<p>At the very least, the word betulah is much closer to &#8220;virgin&#8221; than almah, but it wasn&#8217;t used in Isaiah&#8217;s prophecy.  The Jewish scholars knew the difference between betulah and almah, and yet they wrote &#8220;virgin&#8221; in Greek instead of &#8220;young woman&#8221;.  </p>
<p>This was a really important part to get right; why would they take such a liberty with directions to identify God&#8217;s son?  To increase the significance of the prophecy by using the already-ancient plot device of a virgin birth (see <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perseus" rel="nofollow">Perseus</a>, importantly a Greek figure)?  Because of their own ideas of how God <em>ought</em> to reproduce?  And why don&#8217;t Jewish scholars agree with the translation today?</p>
<p>I realise that your immediate reaction to that last one will be that if the Jews accepted the translation they&#8217;d have to accept Jesus, and they&#8217;re not ready to do that.  Maybe so, but put it this way: what reasons do they give for rejecting it, and are those reasons valid or not?</p>
<p>I always say that if you want to know the problems with the prophecies as they pertain to Jesus, you should talk to a rabbi.  Jews believe the Old Testament prophecies as much as you do, but just don&#8217;t think they apply to Jesus.  They&#8217;re still waiting for their Messiah.</p>
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		<title>By: hayesy</title>
		<link>http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/thanks-craig/comment-page-1/#comment-2371</link>
		<dc:creator>hayesy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jun 2008 05:50:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/?p=277#comment-2371</guid>
		<description>I really don&#039;t have time to do this! haha!
From wikipedia:
&quot;Most importantly, the Jewish scholars who translated and compiled the Hebrew scriptures (the Torah first and then later the Prophets and the Writings) into a &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_Greek&quot; title=&quot;Biblical Greek&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Greek&lt;/a&gt; version of the Old Testament, translated &lt;em&gt;almah&lt;/em&gt; in Isaiah 7:14 as &lt;em&gt;parthenos&lt;/em&gt;, which almost always means &quot;virgin&quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%60almah#cite_note-16&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;[17]&lt;/a&gt;&quot;
Lots of other arguments. Unless you&#039;d care to convince me otherwise?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really don&#8217;t have time to do this! haha!<br />
From wikipedia:<br />
&#8220;Most importantly, the Jewish scholars who translated and compiled the Hebrew scriptures (the Torah first and then later the Prophets and the Writings) into a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_Greek" title="Biblical Greek" rel="nofollow">Greek</a> version of the Old Testament, translated <em>almah</em> in Isaiah 7:14 as <em>parthenos</em>, which almost always means &#8220;virgin&#8221;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%60almah#cite_note-16" rel="nofollow">[17]</a>&#8221;<br />
Lots of other arguments. Unless you&#8217;d care to convince me otherwise?</p>
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		<title>By: hayesy</title>
		<link>http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/thanks-craig/comment-page-1/#comment-2370</link>
		<dc:creator>hayesy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jun 2008 05:46:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/?p=277#comment-2370</guid>
		<description>It hasn&#039;t come up, but a quick &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.goodsearch.com/Search.aspx?Keywords=almah&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;goodsearch&lt;/a&gt; reveals that you&#039;re talking about the whole virgin/maiden thing. I&#039;ve heard it. I&#039;m unconvinced by the argument. Speaking of context, it is useful in that discussion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It hasn&#8217;t come up, but a quick <a href="http://www.goodsearch.com/Search.aspx?Keywords=almah" rel="nofollow">goodsearch</a> reveals that you&#8217;re talking about the whole virgin/maiden thing. I&#8217;ve heard it. I&#8217;m unconvinced by the argument. Speaking of context, it is useful in that discussion.</p>
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		<title>By: SmartLX</title>
		<link>http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/thanks-craig/comment-page-1/#comment-2367</link>
		<dc:creator>SmartLX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jun 2008 02:03:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I wonder, has &quot;parthenos&quot; come up yet?  

Specifically the fact that it was used as a translation of the Hebrew &quot;almah&quot;, when in fact it would have been a more accurate translation of &quot;betulah&quot; which was not used?

Excuse the lack of context, but if you know what I&#039;m talking about you won&#039;t need it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder, has &#8220;parthenos&#8221; come up yet?  </p>
<p>Specifically the fact that it was used as a translation of the Hebrew &#8220;almah&#8221;, when in fact it would have been a more accurate translation of &#8220;betulah&#8221; which was not used?</p>
<p>Excuse the lack of context, but if you know what I&#8217;m talking about you won&#8217;t need it.</p>
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		<title>By: hayesy</title>
		<link>http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/thanks-craig/comment-page-1/#comment-2358</link>
		<dc:creator>hayesy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jun 2008 06:41:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thecrazyaustralian.com/?p=277#comment-2358</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;... including 75 nouns, 17 prepositional phrases, 27 adjectives, and 3 of the principle parts for 27 verbs.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230; including 75 nouns, 17 prepositional phrases, 27 adjectives, and 3 of the principle parts for 27 verbs.</p>
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