A good friend once asked me why I thought Christian schools are useless. I wrote back a manifesto. Since it was fairly comprehensive, and since I’m short of time at the moment, I thought I’d post it:
I don’t think they’re useless, I think there are some very good and real benefits to them, especially from a pastoral perspective. I’m not denying that they might help Christians grow in knowledge and faith, deliver them from (some) temptations, provide a safe environment, provide a supporting community, and encourage Christian friends, among (no doubt) many other benefits. And all this at what is clearly a vital time for development.
The other side of the pastoral issue is this:
1. That is the job of parents and the Church. Of course there are cases where parents or the church don’t fulfil their role, in those cases Christian schools are great! But in general all of the above should be and can be found in healthy families and/or good churches.
2. It reflects a wrong view of the most ‘vital’ time. The time when most of your friends will fall away is not during school, though some do, but in the transition from school to uni and throughout uni. Secular unis, tafes, even workplaces provide not just intellectual challenges to faith but, and more importantly, lifestyle challenges. The question I have is ‘Does growing up in a sheltered environment make the transition easier, or more difficult?’
I don’t have a definitive answer, but here are my thoughts:
a) The difference is greater coming from a Christian school. Instead of the transition being a slight shift up a scale, it is a jolt onto a new scale altogether.
b) Coming from an already alcohol, drug, and sex environment prepares you for uni culture. I was already used to saying no, having courage of my convictions and standing up to peer-pressure. The difference of uni was one of magnitude, but not of kind. It was more of the same. (of course these same things happen at Christian schools, but I get the feeling that it is less common and less extreme). I just try to imagine someone who has never really been to an all-out party before trying to say no to a 20-year old guy holding a goon sack, yelling at you and telling you to open up.
c) After school, one needs to be independent in seeking Christian fellowship. There is no daily devotion at uni, no home-room tutor, no chapel. Stronger Christians, regardless of what type of school they came from, will have no problem seeking out the Christian group and/or a new church. But those who have relied on the institutionalised stuff and never became proactive (simply because they never needed to) might well slip off the radar if they don’t actively seek out other Christians.
So those, off the top of my head, are my pastoral concerns. But my biggest criticism is missional.
My heart is, and always has been, for mission. (So I think I tend to overlook the pastoral aspects sometimes.) This has been, I think, largely due to going to such a pagan school and seeing people I love dearly debauch their way to hell.
From a missional point of view, I think Christian schools (and sporting teams!!!) have a lot to answer for.
I recognise that these are not going to apply to every student in a Christian school, but in general:
1. They take missionaries out of the mission field. There were only 2 other Christians in my grade. The grade below me has 2 in total. That’s 5 Christians trying to reach over 200 lost people. I get emotional about this: every day of school was a conscious effort to try to start conversations, to lift your friends out of their unthinking daze, fend off attacks on your faith, answer objections, and, somehow, hope desperately to present the gospel faithfully. Please hear me: We could use more workers!
Imagine spreading your school alone (not to mention St. Philips, 7th Day Adventist ect) over the other Central Coast schools – there’s another 3 to 5 missionaries per school PER GRADE!
2. They disarm the missionaries. For sure, Christian schools probably provide the *tools* for missionaries in that they grow them in head knowledge. But they remove the urgency for active, desperate evangelism:
- A greater proportion of their friends are already saved.
- Those unsaved are less obviously so.
- The institution assumes responsibility, if not in fact than at least in perception.
Why try hard to share your faith? Most of your friends are Christians, and the ones that aren’t already hear it every week and they’re sick of it. (I’m not making this up, I’ve heard it from someone at your school)
Going to a secular school, surrounded by people who actively and openly reject the gospel, are proud of their sins, and are on their way to hell – it deepens your conviction of need daily! When all 10 of your best friends are unsaved: you can’t help but care. The missionary in a secular school is a deeply convicted one. From what I’ve seen, the missionary in a Christian school is an uncommon one.
This is born out by the CCEC nitechurch mission team: D—, R—, L—- and myself all went to secular schools (A— being the sole exception. He has been out of school a while though.)
3. On a related note, how many people in your grade openly challenge the truth of the Bible, the existence of God, the justice of God, their own sinfulness? And if they do, who answers them? The students or the teachers?
At CCGS, almost any remotely spiritually-related conversation brings intellectual and/or emotional objections to Christianity, and they are just as likely to come from the teachers. And by sheer need, any Christian who cares about the truth of their faith has to find answers: at first to satisfy themselves, and second to satisfy their friends.
You learn to identify the root of an objection, you learn how to express the truth (Biblical, historical ect) in a sensitive, understandable way, you learn to turn questions back on the questioner to reveal their assumptions, you learn to trust the Spirit to give you answers, and you learn to say “I don’t know”.
And you learn this through sheer need, through sheer repetition and trial-and-error.
When Craig D ran Life to the Full in Term 3 (or 4) last year, there weren’t many non-Christians but there were a lot of Nitechurch members (many of whom came from GPCC). He saw it as an opportunity to ask THEM questions, make THEM think. He, at least, saw this as a need (Dad helped run it, Craig explained to him what he was doing and the reasons for it.)
4. They allow the unsaved to hide. You know yourself that many of your colleagues do not have a real or personal faith. But which? And even those you can identify won’t accept it. They know all the ‘head answers’. The greatest protection against the gospel is thinking oneself already saved.
In a secular school, the true Christians are (generally) obvious, and (generally) all others are self-confessed pagans.
I fully recognise the missional advantages of having good schools with Christian teaching – Sam P, my youth leader, became a Christian because his NC mum sent him to GPCC. And, pastorally, I’m sure that some Christians in Christian schools would not still be Christians if they had gone to non-Christian schools. The implications of this are immense. But, and we will never know for sure, how many more might have been saved had the missionaries been in the mission field?
I’m pretty well out of ideas. Now the disclaimer: of course there will be exceptions to every single thing I’ve said. I’ve no doubt that Christian schools have produced passionate, equipped, convicted missionaries who test and challenge their ‘cultural Christian friends’, who are excellent apologists, and who are very well prepared to transition to the next stage of life. You might be one example. But generalisations work, and, at least from my perspective, I think these generalisations are valid. Many are very concerning.
I’m sure I’ve missed some things.
I guess to sum up my position, there are a lot of good things about Christian schools. For some people, they might mean the difference between falling away and staying strong. I certainly don’t think they are useless.
But ideally, in my view, their role would be replaced by the church and parents (as, IMO, it should be) and the harvest would receive many more workers.
——-
I’m sure lots of people will have strong views on this. I’d love to hear them. Leave a (gentle) comment below.

I tried to do the mandatory wordle but my computer was being disobedient. Sorry!
I was converted because I was sent to a Xian school
My family is an interesting example:
2 siblings at a non-Christian School (Grammar)
2 siblings at a Christian School (Green Point)
Did we turn out any differently? – i guess we’ll have to wait a couple of years!
If I was a parent I would send my kids to a non-Christian primary school and then gague from their personality and strength of faith whether they need to be protected in a Christian environment or plunged into non-Christian evangelism
i would have to agree. i am a student at a christian school, and i deeply appreciate the pastoral role that is held in high regard – particularly significant to me is having teachers who, on the whole, go above and beyond and because of that spiritual commonality with many of us, tend to form really close connections. though, it certainly wasn’t being in a christian school that caused me to become a christian – in fact, it was moving out of that environment to a public school that prodded me to have answers for people who challenged my self-appointed label of ‘christian. i say a self-appointed label because, whilst i knew lots of bible stories, there really wasn’t much else there! to be fair, though, it was because i had been in a christian school (and thus introduced by christian friends to youth group) that eventually made me consider jesus.
mission in a christian school is bizarre sometimes - what you say about it is so true. now, as a christian, i regret leaving the public school. there was 1 christian in my year whilst i was there, and she was doing a good job – but there were also so many opportunities. it’s one of the reasons i’m hanging out for uni, it seems (from afar) a wonderful mission field. but that was a disgression – mission in christian schools are so necessary! not ‘jesus loves you’ (which, sadly, is the general focus at my school) but thinking deeply, because as i’ve got older, so many of my friends have said “i don’t want to be a christian anymore” – because there is no substance there. many never ‘became’ a christian to start with; it’s almost as though they absorbed christian philosophies by osmosis because they had been surrounded by them for so long.
in short, i agree. i know that my urgency for mission is less great than that of my friends in non-christian schools – but its still there! partially, perhaps, because my family is non church-going etc. i will probably be that kid at uni parties a bit out of my depth. i see friends everyday now losing their faith because it wasn’t there to begin with – and some deny it every step of the way. i would encourage christian parents not to send their christian kids to a christian highschool (i think the merits of a christian primary school are great on the whole).
i’ll come back to look at other replies.
just read jpj’s reply.
i would do it the other way – christian primary school – just the nurturing, bible-teaching aspect is helpful i think and also a christian peergroup – church should also provide this, obviously, but in a practical sense there’s more people (and more potential therefore to ‘click’ in school). get them involved in non-christian sporting teams etc and guage their strength from there.
strength of faith, that is!
Isn’t it ironic that all the oldest schools in the country were established by the church?
Look, I get what you’re saying. However, I went to a state high school for three years and despised every minute of it, even though I wasn’t a Christian at the time (Gosford High). In that time I never went to any crazy parties, and had no idea what being ‘stoned’ meant. Why? My parents (not Xian) would never ever ever have let me go to one of those parties. It’s rubbish to assume all non-Xians are exposed to debauchery, and that kids at Xian schools are shielded from it.
It’s a fallacy to think people in Xian schools aren’t exposed to sex, drugs, alcohol. At a guess, I’d reckon, more than half my grade at GP wouldn’t have claimed to be Xian, regularly engaged in all sorts of debauchery, and very vigorously challenged the truth of the Bible in class. My sister frequently complained about kids in her class turning up stoned after lunch (so I leaned what that meant at a Xian school!).
You make an important point – parents have a critical role in bringing up their kids as Christians. They also have the choice to send their children to Christian schools if they want them to learn in that environment.
Oh, and someone tell me why sheltering your kids is bad? I was sheltered. I didn’t go nuts, booze up and sleep with as many boys as I could when I hit uni. I think this is BECAUSE I was sheltered, not in spite of it.
BTW, I’m still not sure where I’ll send my kids …
I’m trying really hard to figure out how to word this without being offensive … but the truth of the matter is, I’ve never met someone who sent their kids to, for example, Mt Druitt High because they didn’t want them sheltered. I mean, one could argue CCGS is every bit as sheltered as GPCC, though in a different way …
Thanks for your comments everyone! I don’t want to get in the way of discussion, since you’ve already heard my bit. But I just wanted to thank you all. Anon, for sharing (and agreeing
); Michelle, it must have been a hard post to read, I always enjoy the light you shed on the holes in my bucket argument; jpj – insightful, as always, and I’m keen to hear more reflection on the differences between your and R’s experiences, and T’s and S’s.
Perhaps someone can help me work this out: I still don’t know how, if there is even a way at all, to go about weighing up ‘souls in the hand’ versus potentiality. I mean that angels are rejoicing in heaven that Michelle was converted at a Christian school. Surely that alone makes it all worthwhile…. but we can’t know what would have happened otherwise… ideas?
Why is sheltering your kids bad? Good question – my answer is that it isn’t, but that what happens afterwards can be. It’s like how suffering is not something you want, but suffering produces perseverance… produces hope (Rom. 5:3-5). Being surrounded by debauchery isn’t great, but when you go to uni/tafe/the workplace/travel you will be hit with more of it. The gathering in year 9 prepares you for the party in year 10, which preapares you for the rave in year 11, then schoolies year 12, so by o-week at uni you are prepared. You’ve been saying no for years, habitually standing by your convictions, so its not a giant step.
It might be like immunisation – you get a little bit of it here, which means if you are thrown into it there you are protected. You may not have been thrown into it when you hit uni; I was. There are ‘Christians’ in college, doors away from me, who were not prepared to have alcohol forced down their throats for a week straight, to recieve (on my count) over 16 condoms in the first 3-4 days and be able, even expected, to use them. They were completely disorientated, did not know what to do… and some, not all, made bad decisions.
It’s a tough question for parents. When mine made their decision, there wasn’t a good youth group to rely on. It was a risk; by God’s grace I’m glad they took it.
Just got your comment above: CCGS isn’t sheltered, a good point. Probably best to ask Ricky, or Lachlan, or (littler) Jackson. I reckon you’ve made a good point though – it is silly to deliberately seek danger. I learned that off the Lion King. (“Simba, being brave doesn’t mean you go looking for danger…”
Mind you, on that last point, there was a girl in my year who’d been to 5 different schools, including Gosford Selective, and said that CCGS was the most anti-Christian of all.
I don’t know whether I mentioned it in my post, but another thing I don’t like about GPCC in particular is the GPCC clique at youth group and nitechurch. You see each other all week for goodness’ sake! Can’t you talk to someone else for one night! (This isn’t my experience, and isn’t directed at anyone. It is an observation of other year groups)
Off-topic, but related: don’t join Christian sporting teams! Fellowship is important, do it somewhere else. But sporting teams are an awesome opportunity to share both your life and the gospel with the community.
I found your site through the link on Mr. Taylor’s blog….it’s always nice to see other Australians around the place. (Though I’m betting you’re an inferior Australian…i.e. not an inhabitant of Queensland).
There are places and times and seasons…
With that brief introduction, this post is particularly interesting to me, so I thought I’d comment. Since my youngest years, my parents have been thinking through the pros and cons of different forms of education. At the moment, I am currently homeschooling through a state school. It’s kind of complicated, but basically I am doing a state Grade 12 program at home, with regular “tutorial days” at the school itself where I meet up with my fellow students. (The majority of whom are aggressively non-Christian). I see the problems with my education….but I don’t know that the grass is greener (or holier!) on the other side of the fence.
I also think Christian schools are completely useless, though perhaps not for the same reasons. I think they are useless mainly because I have not seen one truly Christian school. Even the most highly acclaimed “Christian school” in my area uses sexually explicit books for English class and promotes feminism in the social studies courses…just to name two examples. A local Lutheran primary school teacher verbally attacked a student for daring to suggest that evolution was nothing more than a theory. The program and teachers aside, the students of these schools behave just as badly as the students at any other school- perhaps worse because their parents are relying on the school to train them rather than taking responsibility themselves.
So much for the pastoral issue.
As this is the case, I think there is just as much a need for missionaries in “Christian” schools as there are in state schools. However. Laying that aside…
I get the idea that you are talking to (hopefully!) mature students attending high-schools. My question is whether or not is responsible parenting for a parent to send their 5 year old daughter into a school where 9 year olds are peddling pot. Is this 5 year old mature enough to stand up to the pressure? I am by no means saying that all 5 year olds are not mature enough. However, the majority of children cannot take the pressure offered by state schools. Yes, 5 year old Christians are called to be missionaries too. But in some instances I consider sending a 5 year old to a state school to be as clever an idea as sending an 18 year old girl (by herself) to evangelize a thugs-for-fun gang.
Oh…and that was supposed to be gentle. *grin*
Anika, thanks for your comment! Inferior only in climate
I’m sure other people will take up your comment as well (hint hint) but I have 2 comments:
How is discernment taught without the use of discernable material, such as explicit novels?
I don’t think the 5 year old is sent as a missionary (although through school functions his parents might be), but I also don’t think the pressure on a 5-year old is quite that great. It’s an adept 5 year old who can smoke a bong (let alone light it)
How do you find home schooling? Do you feel you have opportunities to be a missionary?
EDIT: I see, on more careful reading, that you are doing it through a state school. That would give you more opportunities to be a missionary than I first thought, but it makes me wonder:
is your home-schooling an obstacle to the gospel?
why did you/your parents decide not
to simply gosimply to go to the school? (edit again: split infinitive)And still the two questions above.
Hmm… I agree on some/most points. I’ve probably got the stock standart response, but here it is anyway.
jpj (a few comments up) is my bro. 2 of my siblings went to a non-christian school another went to a christian school for high school and I went from year 3 and up. I spent k-2 in a public school.
I love and hate my school for different reasons.
Love:
I love my friends. I don’t know where you could find a more convicted, dedicated and amazing group of friends, but I’m glad I got a hold of them. They basically all go to my church and youth too. Seeing them 6/7 days of the week made us really tight and we can *really* lean on each other for support.
Hate:
That has made us very cliquey. I’ve been told that its pretty hard for a new person to work their way in, but I still think this is true of any group of friends.
Love:
I don’t have to deal with swearing and inappropriate behaviour. There are teams of teachers ready to pounce on someone’s back if someone reports them. Its the whole “what goes in is what comes out” argument. I haven’t really become desensitized to it… which may or may not be a good thing.
Hate:
I can’t stand that behaviour. It just grates at the inside of my skull until i want to poke my ear drums with a pencil when I hear it from year 3 public school kids.
Love:
I know my school has got some cruddy stuff in it. The messages can be a little messed up. (We sing in Chapel, and last time, we no joke just sang a love song. No mention, no vague references or anything to Christianity, just “I’ve fallen deeply in love with you”.) Christian school + Good church = Ability to descern a shallow Christian and who needs guidence.
Hate:
I can’t connect to non-christians nearly as much as as I wish. I admit that. Some good Christains at my school have literally no contact with non-christians. (no after school activities). I think that if you are going to send a kid to a christian school, get them to do a sport or something! Don’t let them get completely cut off from the outside world!!! Once they graduate, reality is going to hit them like a tonne of bricks to the head.
Love:
Christianity is literally staring you in the face for most of your school life. Like what my pastor said on Sunday, remind each other daily, humans are so likely to forget, even what is most important. This really helps you not to slide.
…Thats about all from me at the moment… I’m sure I’ll think of others as soon as I submit it, but oh well…
Haysey, a good friend of mine’s husband smoked pot for the first time at the age of six or seven. On the coast.
As for explicit novels, I’d have a problem with my kids reading them, and I’d object to teaching them (I’m teacher-trained … almost). You don’t need to be exposed to something to be discerning about it. That logic is silly! That’s like saying you need to watch p0rn/take drugs/watch violent movies to discern that they’re bad!
Buuut, there’s also the problem that, at least at HSC level, texts are set by the BOS and there’s only so much to choose from.
I know of one fantastically awesome Christian school. It’s in Tamworth.
“Love:I don’t have to deal with swearing and inappropriate behaviour. There are teams of teachers ready to pounce on someone’s back if someone reports them.”
Seriously? My husband teaches at a Xian school and I took him his lunch one day last week. Carrying my 16 month old son and holding my nearly three-year-old daughter’s hand, we were subjected to at least three f-words, a couple of bit-words, and a few sh-words. Just on the walk from the car-park to the A-Block staff room …
How is discernment taught without the use of discernable material, such as explicit novels?
As a state-schooled student, I have been forced to read novels of that kind. Really, I don’t think it has helped enhance my discernment at all. To use the over-used cliche “you don’t learn what counterfeit money is by studying counterfeit money but by studying real money”.
Regarding the pressure on a 5 year old…it actually is quite bad. The mother of a child we know sent her 5-going-on-6 child to state school. He brought back pot on his second day at school that one of his “friends” had given him.
is your home-schooling an obstacle to the gospel?
I don’t think so. I go to the library a lot, and talk to a lot of the state-schooled students there. I talk to my neighbours. I talk to my teachers and my fellow students about the gospel when I possibly can. Of course, I don’t do it as much as I ought. But I don’t think that it’s a matter of opportunity but a matter of my own sinfulness.
I asked my parents why I am homeschooled.
Dad: “We fell into home-schooling like the British fell into their empire: in a fit of absent-mindedness”.
*grin* Well, it wasn’t that bad. But basically, it started because I was driving my parents nuts wanting to learn something and no school would accept me because I was too young. So it started…and it hasn’t stopped. Also, they like to keep an eye on what I am learning and they find home-schooling a help to that.
“there’s also the problem that, at least at HSC level, texts are set by the BOS and there’s only so much to choose from.” Sorry, ignore that. Old school HSC, forgot you mob do it different now
Sazza, great thoughts! (I like the contrasting love/hate thing) Alot of it felt like you were inside my head. The last point is gold. But do you think (perhaps it is hard to imagine) that you are learning to be a self-feeder? At uni, no-one makes you go to chapel…
Michelle, again with the smack-down! It’s like having a paper shredder to put arguments through and see what survives! A seven year-old smoking pot is terrible!
You don’t need to take drugs/read explicit books to discern that they are bad, true. Not when there are teachers to tell you they are bad. My logic is silly, of course you don’t need to read the explicit novel to know it is bad. My concern, though, is that if one is never in danger one forgets to monitor the radar; if one is never required to discern for themselves their discernment muscles become atrophied. Solid theology leads to fine discernment, but discernment must be used. The truest archer must remember to bring his bow.
I agree, critical thought needs to be taught and developed. But …. You were the one who made the point earlier about parental responsibility, yes?
to walk my kids through understanding and thinking critically about a sexually explicit novel? Is it my (and my husband’s) responsibility rather than the school system’s?
(This is me thinking out loud … haven’t got an answer) … why would I want a school teacher
I’ve thought about home schooling … still thinking about it …
Lucky I’ve got three years before I need to make up my mind …
There’s a good deal of baggage around those 2 words, ‘home schooling’, I feel.
Its irrelevant to the current discussion, but this video should be mandatory viewing for all professing Christians.
There’s a good deal of baggage around those 2 words, ‘home schooling’, I feel.
And believe me, I know it! No education system is automatically the best.
I fear it got so bad at one stage that I took a puerile pleasure in telling the rest of the home-school group that I home-schooled through a state school. It was like telling people that I was the anti-Christ, I fear….
I’d be interested in your thoughts on the questions… somewhere up ^^ there…
Which ones specifically?? I thought I did answer.
i don’t like Christian schooling and i think that home-schooling is weird.
but…
i think Josh Harris has some uber-wise words for me… and probably for you too:
http://www.joshharris.com/2008/05/gospel_unity_among_educational.php
Hey Haysey,
My 2 cents worth – I think I agree and disagree with you, I had experience at both a christian highschool, and a non-christian one.
The strength, as you’ve pointed out is that Christian teachers have massive influence in relationships. This must be a good thing. I also agree however on the shock of moving into uni/world if all you’ve known is Christian circles – but I, like you, think the family has the primary responsibility here.
I’d disagree with you on the ‘taking people out of the mission field’ point. Surely that’s assuming that every kid at a Christian highschool is actually christian? That wasn’t my experience – the percentages were pretty even at both of the schools I went to. The difficulty at the Christian school was that a number of unbelievers at the thought they were christian because of their affiliation to the school!
Good post though, good to think through.
Sam, thanks for your comment. A good point – of course not all kids at Christian schools are Christian. What do you think of this point, which was written in response to that:
Dave, great vid! Uber-wise indeed.
Anika, you’re right – I’m sorry, it must have slipped under my radar while I was writing a comment. Interesting…
How do you socialise? So much of my socialisation was done at school!
How do you socialise?
It’s not really complicated. I teach piano students, take piano lessons myself, attend Bible studies and other church events, visit friends on the weekend, talk to people at the park/library/shopping centre, visit my neighbours, have friends around, visit friends, attend tutorials at school, go on church camps, go to public lectures, Instant Message, email, phone etc. etc. etc. In fact, I’m a little bit too social for the good of my study habits.
I probably don’t have as many friends as I would have if I had attended school, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing. From what I observe from others who do go to school, their friends don’t last any longer than does school.
They do if you work at it. (Mind you, I’m not long out of school myself)
I wouldn’t necessarily measure the value of a friendship by its longevity, though. I shared my life with a close group of friends for years 11 and 12; even if the friendship doesn’t continue they have seen in a very real way how the gospel shapes my life.
I’m the only Christian many of them know.
Mmmm, yea that does happen, but it more depends on what group your hanging with and where in the school you are. There is indeed many students that are non-christians and just go there to get a better education. I was sent to GP because the local school education (tumbi umbi) was very pathetic and a number of peopel we know that had kids go there have gotten out and either gone to erina or gosford high. I to became christian from going to a christian school, sure I’d heard about christianity before as my some of my relatives are christian and my mum read a child’s bible to be when i was young that i still can remember. I still didn’t really give it much thought until schooling, and prob still didn’t take it seriously till year 9-10.
I’m up for any question’s you guys wanna ask me, although im on holidays still for 3 weeks and my replies may be very slow
Good offer, hopefully lots of peeps take you up on it!
I have one: how did you find the transition from school to uni?
wow, some awesome comments.
vk – how did you go about sharing jesus with the people in your xian school who thought they were saved, but evidently were not?
sazza – maybe those xian friends should even just make friends outside of your group? there are many, many non-xians at your school.. and i don’t mean that in a snide way, but i reckon its so important they’re reached – cause often the official (teacher) comment on xianity isn’t v profound
Following on from anon’s (sweet!) questions, vk – on the off chance current students of Christian schools are reading this, do you have any advice, stuff you learned or, looking back, wish you had done differently, for how Christians in Christian schools can make the most of it and be the best witness?
“cause often the official (teacher) comment on xianity isn’t v profound”
careful now …
transition from school to uni – I could probably say i’m some what still “protected.” This is im not at uni unless i have a class, i get in, do my class/lecture and get out. (live 10 mins from uni) I have spoken with some people that now know im christian etc.. but haven’t had any long discussions.
This can somewhat answer hayesys question as well.Well as they hear the gospel every chapel every wednesday and have a class called christian development they already know most of the “sunday school answers.” Things that make you stand out as a christian in the school would be singing in chapel, (which only the younger year groups usually do), inviting them to youth and standing up when stuff i said thats non-christian such as skipping chapel and going to the beach.
The singing in chapel can be quite a big thing, i never sang really and as a look back i know i should have to show those around me that im christian and encourage the other people singing.
Another thing would be to attend some parties, as alot of the christian crew in the school wouldn’t attend, i think its good to go where possible discussions can arise.
Can i also say that there is teachers there that aren’t christian, so not all teachers are preaching in class.
hmm, this looks interesting…i may have to come back and share some reflections and questions when its not the night before an exam…
“Another thing would be to attend some parties, as alot of the christian crew in the school wouldn’t attend, i think its good to go where possible discussions can arise.”
Great advice, in my opinion. Really, really good advice.
“Well as they hear the gospel every chapel every wednesday and have a class called christian development they already know most of the “sunday school answers.”
What would have happened, had you bluntly but sensitively challenged someone – “Do you call yourself a Christian?” Do you think that would have helped anything?
Ha, yea that doesn’t really work as alot will call themselves christians and still do today, although its clearly seen that there not.
Alot just think that if they believe in God/Jesus that there christian and but don’t think about their daily sins and how they can stop. eg. binge drinking, lust, sex etc..
Few more thoughts…
One reason I will defend Christian schooling is that I think we need to preserve people’s (well, parents’) right to dictate the education they want their children to receive. So I will just as vigorously defend Muslim schools, or any other faith-based education.
Secondly, we all (myself included) need to be careful in this debate that we don’t undermine what is ultimately a parents’ decision. So, if one’s youth groupers’ parents have decided to send their kids to a Xian school, it is not one’s place to question that. (Trying to be careful and use vague language cuz I don’t want to suggest that anyone actually has done this – just something to keep in mind).
Thidly, there is a lot of presumption floating round as far as other people’s faith goes. Whilst it is fine to question whether or not people who profess to be Xian actually are – and it may be helpful for them to be questioned! – let’s not forget that all Xians can make bad or stupid decisions and fall into temptation.
I’ll back away from the soap box now …
“Another thing would be to attend some parties, as alot of the christian crew in the school wouldn’t attend, i think its good to go where possible discussions can arise.”
Great advice, in my opinion. Really, really good advice.
I disagree (somewhat). I am unconvinced of the value of conversing with someone who is so intoxicated they won’t remember you tomorrow. Secondly, again, be careful that you are not, with perfectly great intentions, undermining the authority of other people’s parents. If I tell my daughter she may not attend said drunken party, please, don’t undermine my authority by telling her she should go.
Agreeing with Haysey and Dave Miers on this.
“I am unconvinced of the value of conversing with someone who is so intoxicated they won’t remember you tomorrow.”
Hrmmm… I don’t think this is necessarily a complete waste, but this is not the main motivation for going to parties. Not everyone is in that state, there will be people are hardly drunk at all. If you go for the conversation, those are the most likely, and most desirable, people with which to converse.
But conversations at the party aren’t the only reason to go. People should also go so they can:
make friends with non-Christians
love their friends by looking after them
witness by their different behaviour
observe their friends outside of the school environment
– all of which will lead to more, and more fulfilling, conversations later on as you talk to your new friends, who know of your love for them, who see your different behaviour, and who cannot pretend to be living a repentant life.
“If I tell my daughter she may not attend said drunken party, please, don’t undermine my authority by telling her she should go. “
Absolutely! I don’t mean to suggest Christian kids disobey their parents!
i didn’t read all the comments so sorry if i am repeating something here.
my ministry passion is for youth – so this is a pretty captivity topic for me. i’m at bible college now and planning to work as a school chaplain when i finish. the reason i have this passion for youth is i fell away from God after high school (i went to a non-Xn school). i agree with you haysey that it isn’t during high school that but in the transition that most people fall. but i also believe the way to help stop this is to give as much pastoral care as possible in the high school years, to grow teenagers to maturity in the faith, so they can handle the tough stuff in the transition.
i also agree that pastoral care is, in theory, the responsibility of family and church. but in reality teenagers spend most of their time at school, so this is going to effect how we best care for them pastorally.
i think that you assume to much about the percentage of kids at Xn schools that are actually Xn (or even claim to be). I recently preached at chapel at a Xn girls school – out of the 900 girls there only about 120 of them have any claim to being Xn….. thats phenomenal! and what a huge opportunity the Xn studies teachers/chaplains have to minister to almost 800 girls every day.
in my experience these kinds of figures are not unusual in Xn schools. and i know many people who were converted because they went to Xn schools – one of who is the youth pastor i worked for last year.
and i know many teenagers who go to Xn schools and spend all their time trying to evangelise their friends.
so in terms of missional work – i think Xn schools are a great mission field.
totally agree with you about sporting teams – DON’T JOIN A XN TEAM – take a mate and join a normal team and share the gospel with them
You make some good points.
I think Sydney Christian schools are slightly different. eg I had no idea Abbotsleigh was a Christian school until recently. The headmistress and some teachers aren’t Christians either, right? So I’d say we’re talking a slightly different kettle of fish there.
But I’m aware that even in coastal Christian schools a large percent are not Christian. On this point, I’d refer you to point 4 in the post above. A number of my friends who went to christian schools have, on separate occasions, expressed the difficulty to witness to their friends because they get so much of it already. It’s your classic innoculation case. Just enough Jesus to protect you from him.
Additionally, I’d refer you to point 3 in my post. In your example, you’ve got 120 Christian girls in one school. What are the implications of this for the surrounding, non-Christian schools? These bigger, less-innoculated, arguably more needy schools are drained of Christian witness.
There were 2 Christians in my grade. I’d say that’s probably above average for schools in this area, though maybe about right. There are about 30 High schools on the Central Coast. (a rough count of this site) Of those, 7 are Catholic and 5 are Christian. Let’s say 20 people at each Christian school are Christian in each grade (probably about right, under for some and over for others).
If we shut all 5 schools, every one of the 25 remaining schools gets 4 Christians in every grade.
At my school, that would be a 200% increase.
That’s 24 more Christians across the grades into each High School. That’s enough for a thriving lunch-time fellowship. Heck, its enough for a lunchtime Bible study group in every grade.
What a difference that would have made to my experience of being a Christian at a secular school!
There are, by God’s grace, a bunch of Christians now at a local state high school – most are children of paid staff of our church, actually. Last year at that school 6 people were saved.
Multiply that by 25. (subject of course to God’s good pleasure)
Yes, people get saved at Christian schools – praise God. My heart is for those who don’t at non-Christian schools.
Yes, Christian schools are a great mission field. Problem is, there’s a greater one still.
“and i know many teenagers who go to Xn schools and spend all their time trying to evangelise their friends.”
Me too. In my experience, they tend to be the exception, and they tend to be weary and frustrated at the lack of fruit.
I wonder how they’d find non-Christian schools.
But thanks for your thoughts, Kate, you make lots of good points and bring a very valuable counter-perspective, which is much needed.
Abbotsleigh has a Christian headmistress. I think a lot of the teachers aren’t christian – they have a christian studies department and a chaplain who run chapel for all the girls each week and borders chapel each sunday.
i can see that a lot of thought has gone into your ideas which is great
my questions are – how many of those christian you have hypothetically moved to public schools will stay christian without the same level of support and care around them?
&
personally i would LOVE to see a lunchtime group at every public school and bible studies for every grade, but who is running those groups and caring for the kids? reminds of Jesus words ‘the harvest is plenty but the workers are few’
i don’t think your wrong…. and i don’t think i’m wrong…. i just haven’t yet figured out how you make the ideal and reality work together.
but i’m not done trying and i’m certainly not done praying and praising God for the work that he is doing in christian and non-christian school alike!
Sorry, re: Abbotsleigh I meant used to have a non-Christian headmistress… but correct me if I’m wrong.
About your questions:
1 – It’s impossible to know. It will forever be an unreality because, unlike a science experiment where you can predict the end if you know the starting conditions, God’s sovereign will is (thankfully) completely determinative and totally unpredictable.
So, under God, all things are possible. With prayer, a church/youth group, Christian family, and the strengthened Christian fellowship now at these schools… who knows? In fact, you really only need any one of those things. (eg one great youth leader can provide all the support needed by a Christian in a nonChristian family and school.)
Wait – You don’t need any of them. A Christian with a Bible can stay Christian. Heck, a Christian without a Bible can stay Christian.
I know, I know, pastorally we know that support is really, really important… my point is that the support is not what keeps people Christian, God is.
2. Why can’t year 12s lead it? I tried to start one in my year 12 year, but there was only 1 other guy and we weren’t close.
Alternatively, all the Christian teachers who’ve been kicked out and are now forced to teach in secular schools can run it.
Know what I’m saying?
“support is not what keeps people Christian, God is.”
i totally agree. but when someone we know becomes a christian what do we do? connect them with a church, youth group, bible study, lunchtime group etc because that support helps – this is probably why the author of Hebrews says “let us consider how we may spur one another on towards love and good deeds. Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another – and all the more as you see the Day approaching.”
so while you don’t need all of those things i think its important to recognise not only that they are important but how important they are. for some ppl they will mean the difference between life and death. for some ppl they won’t but why take the risk?
i know kids who have christian families, go to church & youth group every week but have little to no christian influence at school and they end up living a kind of double life…. and sadly for a lot of them the world is big and attractive and wins their hearts in the end.
i don’t think the solution is to get rid of christian schools – i think it is to get us into non-christian schools. by US i mean teachers, chaplains, scripture teachers, people to run lunch time groups etc. public schools are not just a mission field for students to work in – we can go there too
“Why can’t year 12s lead it?” no reason at all but as you would have experienced its hard work! if you had someone coming into the school (or a christian teacher at the school willing) to meet you and that one other guy and to encourage the two of and read the bible with you and pray with you, what difference would that have made? maybe it would have meant that you guys would have kept going and more would have joined eventually
actually on this point i concede a little – i think we should encourage christian kids in non-christian schools to seek out other christians and find a way to meet together even if its just 2 of them…. but thinking in the ideal it would be nice if they had someone to encourage them
I haven’t read the comments, so I apologise if this repeats anything. I’ll keep it short.
At my local state schools, kids in primary schools are subject from kindergarten to explicit sexual conduct. Kids who are 5 years old. I know, I’ve called Docs about it several times. I wouldn’t send my kids there.
At the local high school, there are probably about 10 students going on to year eleven and twelve, and you can only imagine what goes on there based on what I saw in the primary schools.
Granted I live in a rougher area than most, but when it comes to the protection of my children and their education, I’m gonna do what’s best for them. I went to private school, none of my friends were Christian and I didn’t turn out a snotty nosed snap (i think!). Once I got to 18 I got out in the real world, and it wasn;t too much of a shock. I think there are a lot of assumptions people have about both private and public schools, that are really just assumptions.